Letterman Memories

If you’re reading this, you’re obviously a Letterman fan, but few can claim to be as devoted to the late-night host as Don Giller and David Yoder. Giller, who is known to many in the Lettersphere as Donz, is a New York music typesetter who has amassed a truly impressive archive of David Letterman tapes and information. So complete are his archives and show database — he has almost every Late Night and Late Show that were broadcast — that Letterman’s staff has reached out to him on many occasions to confirm details. While Giller’s presence is less visible — his archives are mostly of a personal nature and he shows up on the members-only Letterman fan-group on Facebook (alt.fan.letterman) — Yoder, a higher-education professional from Kansas, runs the voluminous DDY’s Late Show Fan Page website, home to years of detailed episode guides, show links and video archives.

Letterman Memories talked to Giller and Yoder last week to discuss the end of what has become a three-decade labor of love for both men, who were quick to point out they are not the only passionate Dave fans out there. But as we all know, being a Letterman fan is not a competition. Please, no wagering.

We’re going to start with the obvious and preface it with something Letterman writer Bill Scheft said on Marc Maron’s podcast recently. He realized that when people were asking him, “What will you do once the show ends?” they were really asking about themselves as fans. So what will you do once there’s no more David Letterman on TV?

Don Giller: As I’ve posted in the Facebook version of alt.fan.letterman, I’m going to start dating again.

David Yoder: I’m not sure. Counting repeats, I’ve spent nearly 8,000 hours watching Dave. This is going to be a huge adjustment.

How much time would you say you devote each day to Dave?

David: During the show, I’m doing my written episode log and making video captures. I pretty much watch the show twice each night. Then there’s the episode log to write. It’s always at least three hours a day.

Then there’s upkeep of the web page… updating the guest list, searching the web for articles and guest appearance reviews, reading the “Wahoo Gazette,” of course. It’s more than three hours a day when there’s a new episode.

Don: It varies. I’m certainly not as meticulous as David when it comes to each night’s show. I’ll spend the hour watching, and that’s usually it. There’ll be the occasional conversations with others during other hours of the day, or the time spent digitizing material for individual requests, or logging in bare-bones show details into the database every three to four days.

Unlike David, I don’t have a website to maintain. So he’s got a lot more responsibility than me.

What are your feelings going into these final episodes? Has it made you more reflective / nostalgic?

Don: I guess I’m dreading the era change. This show has, for good or bad, been such a substantial part of my life for three decades — and I’m only a fan, I don’t have the investment earned by those who have been working there for so long — that there’ll be an unwelcome void. And there are countless other fans who feel the same way.

Or an uncertain void, maybe not unwelcome. It’s a path into the unknown, always filled with both wonder and dread.

David: I’ve thought a lot about the staff of the show. Many have been working together for 30+ years, and now they’re going their separate ways. It has to be difficult for them. The most emotional times for me were when I saw a tweet for the last Halloween costumes, and Chris Elliott’s last visit. There will be more.

I started watching the show in the first week, in 1982. I’ll miss everyone on the show… not in a creepy way, but I know I’ll be wondering how they’re doing.

In Brian Abrams’ recent oral history of Late Night, it was news to me that famed Star Wars actor Mark Hamill was a huge Letterman fan who also kept tapes and was consulted by staff. But he eventually stopped. Have there ever been moments when you felt like stopping?

Don: Nope, never. I knew from the start it’d be a long commitment. All I needed were fresh tapes and working VCRs.

David: I’ve never read anyone else’s history of the show(s). I have my own. As to stopping, no. If I commit to something, I’m in for the long haul.

Any thoughts as to what first compelled you to watch Dave and keep watching over the years?

Don: During the summer of 1980, a friend told me I should check out this morning TV talk show, she thought I’d like it. I tuned in, but I wasn’t paying much attention, and so I didn’t pick up on anything.

It was while watching Johnny Carson a year later when Dave would guest on his show that I began to “get” him. That’s when I became a fan.

So I was ready for him when Late Night debuted in 1982, taping onto audio cassette as many shows as I could, though I had missed a few that first year. It was in his second year when it turned into a nightly ritual, and after I got my first VCR in mid-February 1985, I’ve videotaped every show since.

David: I started watching Late Night its first week because the previews made it seem really fun. I loved it from the start. Late Night was, as Martin Mull described it, “high school with money.” One of the reasons for his success was involving so many staff in his segments. It wasn’t just about Dave. He surrounded himself with good, funny people. “Helen, the Ill-tempered Ticket Lady,” “The Guy Under the Seats,” and more recently, Todd Seda and his cue card fort.

Don: I had the same thought as David. I felt, as a fan, I was rewarded for paying attention. That Dave didn’t stoop to a level that didn’t require that. That he allowed us into his TV home, with inside-joke asides to staff that only those who did pay attention would get. It was a welcome perception, no matter how unrealistic it may have been. Just the sense of being allowed in. I remember seeing the first show in person in 1984 and watching the crew and staff seeming to enjoy the taping as much as the audience.

But that perception worked only if the show itself worked, and more times than not, it did.

David: I absolutely agree about the inside jokes. My fan friends and I throw those back and forth all the time. There’s something in lots of episodes that will go right over the head of a casual fan.

What are your thoughts on Jay Leno? Looking forward to that much talked-about return visit? Any thoughts on why Leno “won” the ratings battle?

Don: That’s a topic probably better suited for higher-ups but I’ll give it a shot. I thought Jay was great when he was Dave’s guest on Late Night. He always delivered, and Dave appreciated the history between them from their Comedy Store days. Jay did what he thought was needed to maintain the Tonight Show franchise. And in the process, he watered down his act for wider appeal. And it worked, and good for him. But because of that decision, he lost the respect.

When he guested on Jimmy Fallon’s Tonight Show a few months ago, I found the old Jay back — funny, sharp, biting. I missed that. I expect the same when the suspected reunion occurs.

David: Dave made Jay’s career (on TV, at least). He was a favorite guest of mine in the NBC days, and his many visits on Late Night established him… put him in the position to compete for the Tonight Show. Once he got it, many of my fan friends think he “borrowed” many of Dave’s best segments. If he’s invited on next month, it’ll be fascinating to see, but Jay will always remain in the doghouse with me.

Is there anything you’ve learned about Dave or the show, while watching or researching, that people might be surprised to learn?

David: Sure. I’ve learned that Dave has the strength of 10 men. I’ve learned that he has an excellent vocabulary. Dave has been extremely supportive of staff, through good times and bad. (That’s from staff… not me making an assumption.) I’ve sure learned that Dave can conduct a fascinating interview on a serious subject, such as when Tom Brokaw comes on.

Don: I’ve learned to keep confidences.

Are there moments, episodes, guests that stand out for you? I realize there are literally thousands to comb through, but do any rise right to the top?

Don: Sonny and Cher, 1987. Bill Cosby and Tito Puente, 1995. Dave’s return from his octuple heart attack and twin births, 2000. The first show after 9/11. The last Warren Zevon appearance.

David: Dave’s candid remarks on 9-17-01 will go down in history. I know this isn’t specific, but Dave is an awesome storyteller: the Montana bear story, the George Miller / Dan Fogelberg story, Sully’s adventures with wildlife, the third-grade bacon embarrassment, Dave’s Mom’s mention of hickory nuts on the anvil…

Ah, the anvil joke. Funny stuff. Next question: Will you be watching any of the other shows at 11:35? Have any of the other hosts made an impact?

David: I’ll sure give Stephen Colbert a chance. I have James Corden on while I’m working on my episode log. Dave will not be replaced, that’s for sure.

Don: Me too, re: Stephen. I enjoyed Craig Ferguson a great deal; I felt he came the closest in approaching Dave’s early professional irreverence. I’m already growing tired of Corden. Yambo on steroids. Addressing his studio audience as five-year-olds.

Don, is your archive the most complete collection of tapes that you know of? Do you happen to know if even Letterman’s people have a complete set, NBC to CBS?

Don: Perhaps; my Late Night isn’t at 100%; missing around 40 shows, mostly from 1984. But before I got my first VCR in February 1985, I’d tape the shows onto audio cassettes. So between the audio tapes, the videotaping, and the later tape trades, we’re pretty much there. Late Show is complete to date. As to the show having all of Late Night, you’d have to ask them.

David, any thoughts on what will come of your website and archives? Has anyone approached either of you? There’s valuable stuff there…

David: My fan page isn’t going away, as long as I have the mental capacity to write an annual check. What I’m dreading is CBS’s Late Show page going away. I wish I would have saved all the “Wahoo Gazettes,” for example. No one has approached me about anything. I’m just an amateur.

Don, any thoughts as to what’s to come of your archives?

Don: Off to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for safekeeping. I have no idea. I have some projects in mind: first digitizing everything, including the obscenely rare stuff, then putting something together online that’ll probably be pulled within five minutes.

You’ve both had lots of requests for material / info from others. Is there a most common request? How has interaction with people from around the world, I’m assuming, gone for you?

David: I’ve had about 700 e-mails from Letterman fans. I’ve made them videos whenever I can, but I have only 550 hours of the 6,000 broadcast. It’s been astonishing over the years to see how many people on the show (Viewer Mail, CBS Mailbag, etc.) lose their videotapes of the big day. Sometimes I’ve been able to help. For example, not long ago, I supplied a gent tape from a Halloween Costumes appearance 20 years earlier. It’s really been fun to help people along the way. The e-mails commonly start with, “I’ve been looking for this for 20 years.”

Don: Sometimes we coordinate the requests. If there’s something I have that he doesn’t, we’ll make arrangements to get it to the person who asked for it. Sometimes we’re both stumped, especially when the request is filled with false memory. For years we’d get requests for any Top Ten list that purportedly featured a particular college town, hangout, or fraternity. All fiction.

Did you send back video of the monkey washing a cat when the requests were fiction?

Don: Ha!

David: I’ve been going back and forth for a month with a guy who wants tape of measuring snow on the roof of 30 Rock. He thinks it was from the Late Show, but the date range occurred in the NBC days. He sent me another e-mail this morning, and I sent him more proof that he has his wires crossed. (I was tactful, as far as you know.)

Are there contributions or really anything throughout compiling your archives and logs that you’re particularly proud of?

Don: I get requests from the Late Show staff. That began in early 1995 when I was asked if I had a collection of older Academy Award shows (remember, this was long before YouTube and easy access online). I stayed up all night dubbing everything I had and gave it to the show the next day. Turns out, as I was told, that it was for Dave as part of his prep for hosting the festivities that March. So I’m proud to have played a small but crucial part in that debacle.

Late that same year a friend in Oakland taped a pre-release version of The Late Shift that HBO aired, unannounced, in the early morning of New Year’s Eve. She then mailed it to me. After I got it, I alerted the Late Show and was asked to come by so they could dub what they wanted, and that night they played a small portion of it on the air.

Last year a staffer asked if I could find the Late Night show when Dave uttered the phrase “hump of a camel.” For some reason I had actually logged that into the database, and with the show date in hand (August 27, 1987), a clip of that moment found its way into the Dave episode of Jerry Seinfeld’s Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. A few years before that, another staffer asked me how many times Dave had utilized the “Oprah Log” on his show. For that I went to David’s own extensive log that he’s shared with me over the years and compiled the information for her (and made sure she knew from where I got it). Turns out that was for the interview Oprah had with Dave at Ball State. Oprah read off the number, and I realized only then why the show wanted it. So it’s fun when that happens, all under the radar, all undisclosed.

David: First, I’ve had the privilege of seeing Don’s database, and it is amazing beyond description how much he can tell you about the show. I got the idea to start logging every episode in 1985, in writing. My entries were basic at first, because there was no Internet. I guess I’m proud of my Late Show episode logs. My text editor says they contain 1,500,000 words about happenings on the show. I only have recent years online. Don and I have big fun sometimes comparing notes, for example… on something like how many appearances a guest has had (and does that count cameos, etc.).

Don: I’d like to say that the two of us are just a microcosm of the number of like-minded fans both of us have been blessed to meet and hang out with over the last 15+ years. There’s a bond that’s been built that wouldn’t have been otherwise possible had there not been the glue that is Dave’s shows.

Don, I’m going to put you on the spot. Any question I should be asking? Anything you’d want to ask David?

Don: “Why did you two devote three decades to this? You have no investment in Dave whatsoever.”

Is that for David?

Don: Just something you might ask us, for which I can’t really answer.

How about you David? Any question for Don? Now’s the chance to don a reporter’s fedora…

David: Don, do you have a favorite story Dave has told in a desk chat, or a favorite desk chat/rant?

Don: What’s great, to me, about Dave’s desk rants, is that they demand context to previous desk rants. It’s like reading Pogo. If you haven’t been following the storyline, you’ll miss all the points.

As far as particulars, probably the more heartfelt desk rants that wipe a little of the veneer off “TV Dave" stand out — as mentioned before, the recovery from his heart surgery and his reaction to 9/11. No one else on television could do that with such presence.

David: Let’s also mention the heartfelt and humorous eulogies Dave has delivered after the loss of, for example, Michele O'Callaghan, George Miller, Warren Zevon, Robin Williams, and Joan Rivers.

Don: Bingo, David.

He’s grown with that — back on Late Night, he’d mention the passing of a particular crew member, like Jimmy Fitzgerald or Tommy Casabona, but it didn’t have the sort of human gravitas that he’s managed with the people David listed.

David: I just want to go on record that Paul Shaffer is a musical genius, and the CBS Orchestra is as fine a group of musical professionals as ever assembled. Every song they cover sounds better than the original. I am going to miss them so much!

Don: And they’re approachable as hell. The nicest, unassuming, most accessible folks you could hope to meet. Especially with their credentials.

Finally, any thoughts on the last show, guests, etc.?

Don: I wish I were in the audience for that one, so instead I’ll probably be hanging outside the Ed Sullivan Theater for much of the day. I’m sure it’ll be desolate.

David: I want Bill Murray on the last show, and I think that will happen. Also, I want Bruce Springsteen to come on, as he did on the final Late Night, and sing “Glory Days.”

Don: I predict on the last show Dave will be fighting Foo.

Previous chats:
Barbara Gaines
Gerard Mulligan
Randy Cohen (part 1) (part 2)
Tom Shales

Photo details (left to right): David Yoder & Don Giller, with Letterman fans Cheryl Levenbrown and Dr. Rod Fernandez